Xanadu in Exile ([info]queenofstripes) wrote,
2004-01-03 09:16:00
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  • Mood: disdainful
  • Music: Frank Zappa, "Who are the Brain Police?"

Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt

"People, this is insane. This is a hundred septillion times worse than the worst thing anybody in the universe ever thought of. It's like a million Hitlers raping five million Anne Franks. It's like if Jeffrey Dahmer started a band with Ed Gein, Charles Manson, Elizabeth Bathory, Ozzy Osborne, and Vladimir Nabokov, except instead of playing music they just played EVIL. If the earth were taken over by machines, and they bred humans in slave pits just so they could make them fight to death with rusty nails, and the winners had to eat babies, and the babies had to eat puppies, and the puppies had to eat kittens, our cruel robot masters still wouldn't make their slave children play GTA: Vice City. But what about that sniper whose name escapes me at the moment? What about him? Bet he'd like it! This game is obviously the most urgent threat to human existence since God created dinosaurs. Sooner or later, I would imagine, we'll come to our senses and ban these games from public commerce, just like we banned Married With Children, demon rum, sodomy, and breakdancing. But should we fail in this, our finest hour, imagine having sixty seconds to race through a parking garage so you can stomp on a human face... forever."

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  • 40 comments

[info]wolfieboy

January 3 2004, 07:10:24 UTC 8 years ago

Re: Fuddity

Maybe I'm missing something but isn't there a difference between Michael Jackson doing something to someone in the "real" world and any activities that might have in some virtual world? But possibly I don't have the moral authority of someone who writes for the New York Post.

[info]queenofstripes

January 3 2004, 07:31:35 UTC 8 years ago

Re: Fuddity

Nope. No difference. What you see on a video screen is transmitted directly through your eyes, into your brain, which then directs your body to perform precisely the action you saw, without any conscious evaluation of content. If somebody kills somebody else in a film, book, or game, it's because the author hates that other person and wants them dead -- and when, inevitably, it finally comes to be, it should be treated like any other murder.

And shall I go for the cheap shot? Why not. The only living beings that have the same moral authority as the Post are a species of liver fluke.

[info]wolfieboy

8 years ago

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[info]tygermoonfoxx

January 3 2004, 07:19:14 UTC 8 years ago

Actually, if they'd bothered to play the game the critics would find out it's not that bad. The story line goes a bit further than "coke dealer who got screwed and decides to take it out on everyone". Game players have the option of turning him into a vigilante whose job is to rid the city of organized crime.

The line "Kill all Haitians" is taken out of context; it's part of a larger mission statement in which the main character is told to take out the members of a Haitian gang. No case can be made for picking on minorities because similar missions exist for just about every type of criminal you can think of, including the European gangs. Just how much media coverage would it get if the Caucasians were to yell that the game should be removed because it encourages people to shoot middle aged crooked businessmen.

I can't play the game because I'm not coordinated enough but I like to watch. It's kinda like Miami Vice, but without the bad acting and with a decent plot. The graphics are certainly worth watching; it's the only game I've seen where you can interact with the scenery and every single place has the potential for game play.

Which brings me to my point: the game isn't intended for kids in the first place. Here, at least, it has a big ole MA stamped on the game cover and you can't even LOOK at it if you're under seventeen. With the stoll down 80s style memory lane, I'd be hard pressed to say that the intended target audience whas much younger than twenty-five.

Most of the folk I know who bought it purchased it for one of those two reasons: the excellent graphics machine and the 80s soundtracks. Most of those folk also work in IT and use the game to blow off steam, which would be better than running a stapler across the boss's face.

It's basically a geek's dream, not the imminent threat to society the article made it out to be.

[info]aki_dreaming

January 3 2004, 10:55:25 UTC 8 years ago

Just how much media coverage would it get if the Caucasians were to yell that the game should be removed because it encourages people to shoot middle aged crooked businessmen.

they've obviously missed their angle.

[info]kinkyturtle

8 years ago

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[info]tygermoonfoxx

8 years ago

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[info]yakko

8 years ago

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[info]princesswitch

January 3 2004, 07:27:09 UTC 8 years ago

I think I'm in the mood to buy some stock.

[info]stuffy

January 3 2004, 08:01:36 UTC 8 years ago

But, but, I've played the game numerous times and I still haven't amass enough inhibited violence for me to start dealing coke and hurt people with baseball bats and chainsaws. All I ever achieve in terms of antisocial effects is that everytime I see a car on the road, I feel like stopping the car I'm in, run in front of said moving vehicle, then highjack it. Unfortunately I know I would probably get knocked down before I can do anything, but from what is speculated I'm suppose to be already on drugs due to playing the game and must obey my inhibited violent instincts.

But that's the same thing that happens to me when I play Simpsons: Hit and Run and that makes me very confused.

[info]freeko

January 3 2004, 08:33:37 UTC 8 years ago

Before that wasn't it Marilyn Manson and Gangsta Rap. Stick around long enough and you become respectable enough I guess!

[info]cargoweasel

January 3 2004, 09:03:57 UTC 8 years ago

it just amazes me that this game has been out for a year, and GTA3 which is just as bad for two or more years, and they're just noticing this now. Maybe Rockstar/Take Two is promoting the Xbox release.

[info]unciaa

January 3 2004, 10:58:27 UTC 8 years ago

Hey, more than 10 years later people still use Doom as a Bad Bad Evil Game That Creates Killers example. I want to go back in time to read some "Pong made my son a terrorist!", "The evils of Tetris" and "PacMan- a man or a part of the homosexual agenda?" articles.

[info]mousit

January 3 2004, 09:40:41 UTC 8 years ago

I think it's particularly funny that they're concentrating on Vice City alone. As Cargo pointed out, GTA3 itself has been out for years; not to mention the fact that the GTA franchise has been around even longer. And also, whenever I hear about this particular moronic battle, the commercial that comes to *my* mind is the new game "True Crime: Streets of LA". It looks to be just as bad - though I haven't played it so I can't say. Though it has the fun of involving real places and real people (some celebrities make appearances in it, violently), rather than a totally made up place like GTA uses.

All in all, my thoughts on it are best summed up by stealing someone else's quote that I saw the other day: "Fuck off. If you don't want your kids to play it, be a responsible parent and don't let them. Stop trying to get the government to do your job for you, you lazy bastard."


Meanwhile, this post has actually given me the urge to fire up the PS2 and actually play Vice City. ;>

[info]kiala

January 3 2004, 10:22:37 UTC 8 years ago

I have to admit, I'm developing much more sadistic violent streaks from work than I ever did from video games or media.

[info]aki_dreaming

January 3 2004, 10:53:20 UTC 8 years ago

Customer service?
Nothing makes me want to kill like fracking Christmas!!

[info]yakko

8 years ago

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[info]aki_dreaming

8 years ago

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[info]guilen

8 years ago

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[info]bibble

January 3 2004, 10:43:26 UTC 8 years ago

the author of that article is either being needlessly provocative, or was hired soley on the basis that he would write some whack-job article. it's trash, meant to sell newspapers, to provoke. it's not anythign that warrants, well, anything, not criticism, not even my or your limited attention.

[info]kaijima

January 3 2004, 10:46:40 UTC 8 years ago

They haven't noticed Manhunt yet, have they?

[info]turbinerocks

January 3 2004, 15:21:36 UTC 8 years ago

Manhunt is too new, and I don't think Manhunt will have the legs (read: unprecedented sales) of GTA 3 and Vice City since it's a more focused stealt based affair and not the "virtual toy" that the GTA games are.

But New Zealand banned Manhunt, so...

[info]aki_dreaming

January 3 2004, 10:52:26 UTC 8 years ago

I freely confess to being an ignorant twit.

I'm going to do the stupid thing and agree with the Post guy, marginally.
However, in doing so, I'm also going to point out all the reasons I have to do so marginally.

1) I don't own any stock in anything.
2) If I were going to own any stock in anything it wouldn't be a video game company.
3) I never buy shit-ass games like that anyway.
4) I never play shit-ass games like that at other people's houses.
5) Plenty of people play violent videogames all the time and there are still people.
6) Plenty of people play GTA and there are still women and other people's cars.
7) Plenty of people play GTA: Vice City and there are still Haitians (thank the godz!).
8) No one ever really outlawed Married With Children I don't think, and if they did they should be beaten.
9) Ozzy Osbourne does not belong on that list. Marilyn Manson maybe, but only if he volunteers.

I guess what I'd like to see is a world in which people lose their desire to make and buy crap like that, but whatever.
The Haitian thing is pretty rude.
I don't think you can legislate common sense or courtesy or human decency and if you could, I don't think our writer would be scoring any higher than our average video game designer or player.

[info]baxil

January 4 2004, 00:12:32 UTC 8 years ago

Re: I freely confess to being an ignorant twit.

> The Haitian thing is pretty rude.

Agreed, but look at the context (which was the point in the first place). The line is said in the middle of an ethnic gang war, by the leader of the opposing gang.

Compared to real life, "kill all Haitians" was probably already toned down to avoid whatever slur would have been used in its place.

[info]aki_dreaming

8 years ago

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[info]rowyn

January 3 2004, 11:27:54 UTC 8 years ago

I think "They Just Played EVIL" would be a good name for a rock band.

[info]bibble

January 3 2004, 14:25:44 UTC 8 years ago

hehehe. definately.

[info]heron61

January 3 2004, 11:38:23 UTC 8 years ago

Clearly this game make people kill, just like Doom made people kill, all manner of heavy metal songs made teens to commit suicide &/or worship Satan if played backwards (or sometimes if played at all) and playing D&D makes you wander around in steam tunnels and hunt humans for prey.

In the past people used to blame Jews, Gypsies, or midwives for every plague or natural disaster, in the early 20th, they blamed pot and coke for making black people kill & or rape white women, now they blame video games and rock music. I am quite intrigued that the focus of danger has shifted from cultural outsiders like racial and religious minorities to teens. I don't know if people 100+ years ago had this level of fear of their young. Generational tensions are as old as humanity, but not necessarily the fear that teens will rampage and kill. In any case, I'm guessing that it will take some serious upgrades to rid most people of the desire to place blame like this.

[info]kinkyturtle

January 3 2004, 19:32:52 UTC 8 years ago

Teens! AIEEEE!

Omigod! Teens are scary! We don't know WHAT makes them tick! They're all walking TIME BOMBS! I know! Let's ban something they do for fun! That'll do the trick!

[info]pathia

January 3 2004, 11:44:38 UTC 8 years ago

Actually, there is very hard core evidence that its very easy to manipulate a child's mind with media.....without adult supervision.


Without adult supervision being the key.

I saw an extremely disturbing video of some young children shown two different videos.

One video was a group of children being friendly and hugging one of those clown dolls that always stays upright. Being friendly and nice to it.

The other group was shown a group of kids beating the shit out of it.

They then put the children in a room with one of the dolls and the chaos was beautiful.

The 'violent' kids starting beating the living hell out of the doll and the ones that saw the video of kids hugging it starting wailing at the top of their lungs, screaming in horror.

[info]donnaidh_sidhe

January 3 2004, 12:26:24 UTC 8 years ago

The original Bobo doll experiment involved a video of a single adult woman hugging/whacking the doll, so that's more of an example of the influence of someone in a position of authority. Now if they did another one with kids hugging/abusing the dolls, it would be an example of peer influence, but I haven't run across the second version of the study. Who ran that study?

[info]pathia

8 years ago

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[info]norondor

January 3 2004, 19:54:34 UTC 8 years ago

Jesus, that was a great rant. Someone should put you in charge of something already.

Actually, if that guy had been talking about Manhunt, I'd have been hard-pressed to disagree. Yeah, way to get freak out the squares, Rockstar, now can you get back to making games that are actually good?

[info]noitaroproc

January 3 2004, 21:54:29 UTC 8 years ago

...

Maybe it's satire?

[info]melskunk

January 4 2004, 00:47:33 UTC 8 years ago

God, he's captures exactly how my love of Super Mario Bros makes me jump into drains and step on turtles and mushrooms, occasionally in a raccoon suit!

[info]orinotta

January 4 2004, 15:06:33 UTC 8 years ago

Lucky the writer never got to see 'Postal 2' then :o3

The writer also sounds like a knob, I agree.

But, can I give the experience of an 'outsider'? Someone who has no interest or experience in video games?

You see, I say 'Postal 2' at a mate's house recently and, well, I was concerned, put it that way. I've ignored games in years and if they've got to the point where simulated casual murder and animal torture are the sole point and goal, then I do find that a little worrying.

Someone once said that the human-being was the only animal other than the cat with an inbuilt torture instinct. I look (well, avoid looking) at sites like Ogrish and games like that and can't help thinking there's some truth in it. We do seem to have a sick fascination with things being hurt. I suppose the question is whether or not cathartic make-believe like 'Postal 2', slasher movies and the available images and films of real-life torture represent a healthy fullfilment and dissipation of this instinct or whether it's safer to close the lid and repress it ... i'd be interested to hear your views.

[info]amblinwiseass

January 4 2004, 21:57:56 UTC 8 years ago

You may not already have heard that baboons, closely related to humans in a genetic sense, have been observed to kill one another for no apparent (territoral, mating-related, or food-related) reason.

[info]laturner

January 5 2004, 07:11:17 UTC 8 years ago

I have GTA3, this makes me want to run out and get Vice City just to help out the company. Unfortunately I'm too busy fighting my urges to throw hand grenades at laundry trucks to leave the house. *eyeroll*

[info]koogrr

January 5 2004, 07:42:22 UTC 8 years ago

GTA 3 & VC, Sooooo addicting! Led me to a signature line.

You are a uniquely rendered character in a world of respawners.

[info]queenofstripes

January 5 2004, 18:12:26 UTC 8 years ago

*CACKLE!*

That's excellent.
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